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	<title>Comments on: Ground truthing</title>
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	<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/</link>
	<description>Strategies for Internet citizens</description>
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		<title>By: Jilles</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125861</link>
		<dc:creator>Jilles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125861</guid>
		<description>Shouldn’t be too hard right? For example, TomTom (car navigation) comes now with models that will broadcast back information (which lets TomTom detect where traffic jams are located).

Similarly, if you never saw anyone driving across that closed of part of the street you could draw the conclusion that it’s become either a) unusable or b) non-existent, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shouldn’t be too hard right? For example, TomTom (car navigation) comes now with models that will broadcast back information (which lets TomTom detect where traffic jams are located).</p>
<p>Similarly, if you never saw anyone driving across that closed of part of the street you could draw the conclusion that it’s become either a) unusable or b) non-existent, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Tracks4Africa: Mapping and annotating Africa&#8217;s remote eco-destinations &#171; Jon Udell</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125643</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracks4Africa: Mapping and annotating Africa&#8217;s remote eco-destinations &#171; Jon Udell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125643</guid>
		<description>[...] found out about T4A when a reader commented on an earlier item about ground truthing and crowdsourced mapping. T4A is a wonderful demonstration [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] found out about T4A when a reader commented on an earlier item about ground truthing and crowdsourced mapping. T4A is a wonderful demonstration [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Mark</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125517</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125517</guid>
		<description>I was reminded of this thread when I came across this site today:  http://cyclopath.org/wiki/Main_Page

It has both maps and text content - very rich.  From the main page:

&quot;Welcome to Cyclopath, the geowiki for Twin Cities bicyclists. You can use Cyclopath to find routes and share information with other cyclists. 

Nobody knows where you can go, and what you will find when you get there, better than you, the bicycling community. Cyclopath enables bicyclists to harness this collective knowledge and build a comprehensive, up-to-date information resource by and for the community.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was reminded of this thread when I came across this site today:  <a href="http://cyclopath.org/wiki/Main_Page" rel="nofollow">http://cyclopath.org/wiki/Main_Page</a></p>
<p>It has both maps and text content &#8211; very rich.  From the main page:</p>
<p>&#8220;Welcome to Cyclopath, the geowiki for Twin Cities bicyclists. You can use Cyclopath to find routes and share information with other cyclists. </p>
<p>Nobody knows where you can go, and what you will find when you get there, better than you, the bicycling community. Cyclopath enables bicyclists to harness this collective knowledge and build a comprehensive, up-to-date information resource by and for the community.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard Farrell</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125475</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125475</guid>
		<description>I was able to correct our house location on Google, I did that in December. But that doesn&#039;t fix Yahoo, Mapquest or any other map provider. The fix doesn&#039;t appear to make it back to data providers.

I did call Navteq a few years ago and pointed out this error, they were the Google data provider at that time. But they didn&#039;t have a way to accept the update.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was able to correct our house location on Google, I did that in December. But that doesn&#8217;t fix Yahoo, Mapquest or any other map provider. The fix doesn&#8217;t appear to make it back to data providers.</p>
<p>I did call Navteq a few years ago and pointed out this error, they were the Google data provider at that time. But they didn&#8217;t have a way to accept the update.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Udell</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125449</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Udell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 20:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125449</guid>
		<description>&gt; Anyhow, it seemed unlikely that anyone would
&gt; have gone looking for your house in Flickr, but
&gt; if they had, they would have found my geotagged
&gt; photos.

One person did look, and did find them: me. 

You should&#039;ve knocked -- or anyway, called!

It is weird, though, isn&#039;t it, being locatable in the ways we are now. I suppose in the future -- i.e. now -- we&#039;ll want to have sensors that watch out not only for mentions of our names online, but also mentions of our locations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Anyhow, it seemed unlikely that anyone would<br />
&gt; have gone looking for your house in Flickr, but<br />
&gt; if they had, they would have found my geotagged<br />
&gt; photos.</p>
<p>One person did look, and did find them: me. </p>
<p>You should&#8217;ve knocked &#8212; or anyway, called!</p>
<p>It is weird, though, isn&#8217;t it, being locatable in the ways we are now. I suppose in the future &#8212; i.e. now &#8212; we&#8217;ll want to have sensors that watch out not only for mentions of our names online, but also mentions of our locations.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Schott</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125448</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Schott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125448</guid>
		<description>Two summers ago I was vacationing back east and I stopped Keene on my way from Maine to New Jersey to spend a couple of hours trying to recreate your Google Maps walking tour of Keene, NH (http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/2005/02/25.html#a1185).  My goal was to try to shoot QTVR panoramas of spots along the way in order to enhance the original tour.  (I&#039;ve still got some of these somewhere, if you&#039;re interested, though I&#039;ve never formally put them together in the way I had originally intended.)  Anyhow, I got curious where you lived and looked you address up in the local phone book.  Too shy to walk up and knock on the door, I did snap a few photos of your house and eventually I posted and geotagged them in Flickr.  You can find them here: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Jon%20Udell%27s%20house&amp;w=all  Keep in mind that the geotagging on the photos marks the location from which I shot the photos, rather than the location of the subject of the photos.  Anyhow, it seemed unlikely that anyone would have gone looking for your house in Flickr, but if they had, they would have found my geotagged photos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two summers ago I was vacationing back east and I stopped Keene on my way from Maine to New Jersey to spend a couple of hours trying to recreate your Google Maps walking tour of Keene, NH (<a href="http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/2005/02/25.html#a1185" rel="nofollow">http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/2005/02/25.html#a1185</a>).  My goal was to try to shoot QTVR panoramas of spots along the way in order to enhance the original tour.  (I&#8217;ve still got some of these somewhere, if you&#8217;re interested, though I&#8217;ve never formally put them together in the way I had originally intended.)  Anyhow, I got curious where you lived and looked you address up in the local phone book.  Too shy to walk up and knock on the door, I did snap a few photos of your house and eventually I posted and geotagged them in Flickr.  You can find them here: <a href="http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Jon%20Udell%27s%20house&amp;w=all" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Jon%20Udell%27s%20house&amp;w=all</a>  Keep in mind that the geotagging on the photos marks the location from which I shot the photos, rather than the location of the subject of the photos.  Anyhow, it seemed unlikely that anyone would have gone looking for your house in Flickr, but if they had, they would have found my geotagged photos.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Fagan</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125437</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Fagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125437</guid>
		<description>ah, and we all forgot one big thing

Google&#039;s mapmaker http://www.google.com/mapmaker

essentially openstreetmap without the open, for countries that google does not have good data for</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ah, and we all forgot one big thing</p>
<p>Google&#8217;s mapmaker <a href="http://www.google.com/mapmaker" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/mapmaker</a></p>
<p>essentially openstreetmap without the open, for countries that google does not have good data for</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Udell</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125428</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Udell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125428</guid>
		<description>&gt; tracks4africa

I love the mission statement!

&quot;Strictly speaking it is NOT a map. It is the collective navigational experience of the T4A Data Community on countless leisure and trips to eco-destinations into remote and eco-sensitive Africa&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; tracks4africa</p>
<p>I love the mission statement!</p>
<p>&#8220;Strictly speaking it is NOT a map. It is the collective navigational experience of the T4A Data Community on countless leisure and trips to eco-destinations into remote and eco-sensitive Africa&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Udell</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125427</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Udell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125427</guid>
		<description>&gt; it is likely that user-generated content
&gt; efforts will eventually eliminate the 
&gt; need for dedicated map data providers.

Or maybe it will just transform their business into something different. With millions of contributors, I can still imagine a need for a team of hundreds of paid managers/coordinators/gardeners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; it is likely that user-generated content<br />
&gt; efforts will eventually eliminate the<br />
&gt; need for dedicated map data providers.</p>
<p>Or maybe it will just transform their business into something different. With millions of contributors, I can still imagine a need for a team of hundreds of paid managers/coordinators/gardeners.</p>
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		<title>By: Pascal Van Hecke</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125426</link>
		<dc:creator>Pascal Van Hecke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125426</guid>
		<description>TomTom (Dutch car navigation producer) has Mapshare and acquired Tele Atlas:

From:
http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?id=509968

&quot;the acquisition could strengthen TomTom&#039;s newly introduced MapShare service, which allows users to update map data manually to increase map data accuracy and reliability.

TomTom&#039;s strategy of stimulating user-generated content is a good example of creative innovation in the navigation market, but this concept could spell trouble for map providers once it catches on. Consumer and company awareness of navigation and Web 2.0 applications is growing, and it is likely that user-generated content efforts will eventually eliminate the need for dedicated map data providers. Additionally, large companies such as Google and Nokia could motivate user-generated content by offering free server space and applications. For example, consumers could use their GPS-enabled phones to collect traffic and road infrastructure information in real time, and this information could then be collected, managed and analyzed by the companies and shared with everyone.&quot;

BTW: in some EU countries, there are already traffic (jam) information services based on the (anonymised) location information of moving (or not) mobile phones collected by the telco.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TomTom (Dutch car navigation producer) has Mapshare and acquired Tele Atlas:</p>
<p>From:<br />
<a href="http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?id=509968" rel="nofollow">http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?id=509968</a></p>
<p>&#8220;the acquisition could strengthen TomTom&#8217;s newly introduced MapShare service, which allows users to update map data manually to increase map data accuracy and reliability.</p>
<p>TomTom&#8217;s strategy of stimulating user-generated content is a good example of creative innovation in the navigation market, but this concept could spell trouble for map providers once it catches on. Consumer and company awareness of navigation and Web 2.0 applications is growing, and it is likely that user-generated content efforts will eventually eliminate the need for dedicated map data providers. Additionally, large companies such as Google and Nokia could motivate user-generated content by offering free server space and applications. For example, consumers could use their GPS-enabled phones to collect traffic and road infrastructure information in real time, and this information could then be collected, managed and analyzed by the companies and shared with everyone.&#8221;</p>
<p>BTW: in some EU countries, there are already traffic (jam) information services based on the (anonymised) location information of moving (or not) mobile phones collected by the telco.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125425</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 04:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125425</guid>
		<description>How many people are required to verify a change? Who verifies that they are credible?

Would it be possible to formulate a GDOS (Geographic Denial of Service) &quot;attack&quot; which removed someone&#039;s street from mapping services, thereby rendering it impossible for them to receive deliveries (at least from carriers that use electronic mapping to speed their delivery persons)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many people are required to verify a change? Who verifies that they are credible?</p>
<p>Would it be possible to formulate a GDOS (Geographic Denial of Service) &#8220;attack&#8221; which removed someone&#8217;s street from mapping services, thereby rendering it impossible for them to receive deliveries (at least from carriers that use electronic mapping to speed their delivery persons)?</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125423</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125423</guid>
		<description>Just for anecdotal evidence.  I was looking around Toronto, Ontario in Satellite mode and noticed some image tearing near a mall.  The images were not lining up correctly for several blocks.  I emailed Google via the contact (http://maps.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=98014) and within two days the problem was resolved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for anecdotal evidence.  I was looking around Toronto, Ontario in Satellite mode and noticed some image tearing near a mall.  The images were not lining up correctly for several blocks.  I emailed Google via the contact (<a href="http://maps.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=98014" rel="nofollow">http://maps.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=98014</a>) and within two days the problem was resolved.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregor J. Rothfuss</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125422</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregor J. Rothfuss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125422</guid>
		<description>I approved your edit. Thanks for helping to improve Google Maps :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I approved your edit. Thanks for helping to improve Google Maps :)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Fagan</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125420</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Fagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125420</guid>
		<description>ah, well openstreetmap gets into from data files including gps traces, in addition to manual entry. virtually all of any of these three orgs&#039; data will be based on gps I suspect</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ah, well openstreetmap gets into from data files including gps traces, in addition to manual entry. virtually all of any of these three orgs&#8217; data will be based on gps I suspect</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Domeny</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2008/09/24/ground-truthing/#comment-125417</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Domeny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonudell.wordpress.com/?p=661#comment-125417</guid>
		<description>With all the GPS systems driving around in automobiles, I&#039;d like to see the map data aligned with the GPS location. I&#039;m always amused when my GPS system thinks I&#039;m 100 feet off the side of the road.

But, I&#039;m all in favor of community feedback too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all the GPS systems driving around in automobiles, I&#8217;d like to see the map data aligned with the GPS location. I&#8217;m always amused when my GPS system thinks I&#8217;m 100 feet off the side of the road.</p>
<p>But, I&#8217;m all in favor of community feedback too.</p>
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