[...]WebSlices can help popularize feed syndication « Jon Udell[...]…

The (only) explanation I’ve heard for IE including WebSlices and not existing microformats is that microformats focus on commonly-published data (e.g. weather info, stock info), but only provide the ability to parse such data when it’s microformatted. As a result, users will see this data all over the web, but only be able to parse it on specific sites, which will be confusing. I think that position makes some sense, though I think the data is worth that potential confusion. What I don’t think makes sense is your expectation that this is going to change. If IE’s parsing of weather data is subject to all or even a majority of weather data being formatted to a standard, that’s effectively a declaration that such parsing will never happen. In a similar chicken-and-egg data web problem, IE 8 also (still) fails to parse XHTML with a proper MIME type, stifling the progress of XHTML-based-RDF work. From my perspective, there’s a lot of harm being done by IE failing to support these emerging data-web standards.

There’s nothing proprietary about the functionality. I was about to ask: “How long before Firefox extensions show up that do these things?” And then I saw your later comment: it took a day.

For me this really is about the hope that by bringing two key concepts together — microformats and syndication — in a package that will reach a lot of people, those ideas will take root and flourish.

I’ve spent a lot of time and energy trying to explain these concepts. First, that nuggets of structured data embedded in web pages can have special value, and are worth creating and exchanging. Second, that syndication creates networks of awareness, and that there are all sorts of useful ways to produce and consume feeds.

The principles at work, and the applications of them, are just too abstract to make sense to most people. I understand the Operator toolbar because I’m immersed in the concepts, but a civilian wouldn’t know what to do with it, or why.

A civilian would, I think, relate to the idea that pieces of frequently-visited web pages — weather info, stock info — can start to surface in other, more convenient contexts.

My hope, and it’s only a hope, is that by nurturing that understanding, there will be a broader appeal for a whole class of tools and techniques related to microformats and syndication. If it works out that way, great. If not, no harm done.

Pretty fast work.

I’ve also noticed, though, that many good ideas never emerge from that phase into the mainstream.

Well, sure. Companies should feel free to use whatever marketing tools (and market power, within reason) at their disposal to *move* ideas and implementations from that phase into the mainstream, but that’s not exactly what’s happening here.

Instead, this seems more like an attempt at a preemptive first strike to establish proprietary functionality deliberately *incompatible* with the work that has been developed incrementally in full public view.

To paraphrase a famous literary critique: The IE8 beta is both innovative and good. Unfortunately the parts that are good are not innovative, and the parts that are innovative are not good.

It’s an incredibly useful approach. As you know I’m a big fan of incrementalism and exploratory development. I’ve also noticed, though, that many good ideas never emerge from that phase into the mainstream. As Perl folk say, there is more than one way to do it.

“It seems to me that will give microformats a bigger boost.”

Hope so. The idea needs all the wind behind its sails that it can get.

Also note that it’s not that unusual for Firefox add-ons to serve as a testbed for experimenting with technologies and features before they are incorporated into the main browser once they proved their utility and popularity. This seems to me a better approach than springing new features and formats fully formed as from the forehead of Zeus.

Here is a list of other Firefox microformats extensions, since you weren’t aware of Operator:

http://microformats.org/wiki/firefox-extensions

And note that Firefox 3 will have a microformat API and associated features, heavily inspired by Operator:

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/mozilla_does_microformats_firefox3.php

It seems to me that will give microformats a bigger boost.