Comments on: The fourth platform http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/ Strategies for Internet citizens Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:06:41 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: OpenLink Data Spaces http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-97695 OpenLink Data Spaces Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:36:34 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-97695 [...] application, it can be seen as an implementation of something similar to what Jon Udell calls the Fourth Platform. It is a distributed system that has been developed with a social/collaborative mindset. It has its [...] [...] application, it can be seen as an implementation of something similar to what Jon Udell calls the Fourth Platform. It is a distributed system that has been developed with a social/collaborative mindset. It has its [...]

]]> By: Plataformas de Internet y la nube como futuro | Denken Über http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-68597 Plataformas de Internet y la nube como futuro | Denken Über Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:25:45 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-68597 [...] Jon Udell el Microsoft Internet Bus es un ejemplo; yo lo veo como un salesforce con componentes de Ning pero [...] [...] Jon Udell el Microsoft Internet Bus es un ejemplo; yo lo veo como un salesforce con componentes de Ning pero [...]

]]> By: GotzeBlogged » Blog Archive » Airlines and EA http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-67091 GotzeBlogged » Blog Archive » Airlines and EA Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:31:01 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-67091 [...] infrastucture level (99,9% uptime not good enough on mission-critical systems, etc.). Oh, and the VLJs and the fourth platform. Enterprise [...] [...] infrastucture level (99,9% uptime not good enough on mission-critical systems, etc.). Oh, and the VLJs and the fourth platform. Enterprise [...]

]]> By: Ian Rae http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-64371 Ian Rae Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:18:44 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-64371 I agree that MA's viewpoint is exclusively cloud centric (shocking). And Michael Bernstein nails it with the P2P stack. What happens when people really do start to care about privacy in the cloud? Which reminds me of your discussion of "lifebits." Maybe the user will eventually want to retake full control and the only way to do that is to have the application and data run from my personal "datacenter" and get streamed/cached throughout the cloud in a non-persistent P2P way. Sure the application code comes from the cloud (I subscribe to an app) and maybe there is some synchronization, syndication to the cloud, but more likely through the cloud(the cloud is an essential service in connecting your personal data center with mine, and promise some degree of resilience via caching (who's TTL I control) but not all important). Unfortunately asymmetric internet connections and net neutrality issues may hold this back. The internet is fundamentally about E2E. The cloud shouldn't be an endpoint (unless necessary for backup purposes, or caching) rather the cloud is distribution, the cloud is what allows all that level 1 connectivity to occur. In this world Facebook is runs as a local app (cross platform one would hope) so that neither the Facebook corporation ownz my stuff nor my friends who subscribe to my stream which is a non-persistent and revokeable cache on their personal computer. But I may be clouding the issue. I agree that MA’s viewpoint is exclusively cloud centric (shocking). And Michael Bernstein nails it with the P2P stack. What happens when people really do start to care about privacy in the cloud?

Which reminds me of your discussion of “lifebits.” Maybe the user will eventually want to retake full control and the only way to do that is to have the application and data run from my personal “datacenter” and get streamed/cached throughout the cloud in a non-persistent P2P way.

Sure the application code comes from the cloud (I subscribe to an app) and maybe there is some synchronization, syndication to the cloud, but more likely through the cloud(the cloud is an essential service in connecting your personal data center with mine, and promise some degree of resilience via caching (who’s TTL I control) but not all important). Unfortunately asymmetric internet connections and net neutrality issues may hold this back.

The internet is fundamentally about E2E. The cloud shouldn’t be an endpoint (unless necessary for backup purposes, or caching) rather the cloud is distribution, the cloud is what allows all that level 1 connectivity to occur. In this world Facebook is runs as a local app (cross platform one would hope) so that neither the Facebook corporation ownz my stuff nor my friends who subscribe to my stream which is a non-persistent and revokeable cache on their personal computer.

But I may be clouding the issue.

]]> By: Jon Udell http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-64146 Jon Udell Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:24:46 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-64146 "I think you’d have to call it ‘Level 0′." Great point! "Instead, we will need a P2P-service equivalent to POSIX, and I would be very surprised if it didn’t turn out to be RESTful" About 10 years ago I was working on something was calling distributed HTTP: http://jonudell.net/download/dhttp.html. I still like the idea. “I think you’d have to call it ‘Level 0′.”

Great point!

“Instead, we will need a P2P-service equivalent to POSIX, and I would be very surprised if it didn’t turn out to be RESTful”

About 10 years ago I was working on something was calling distributed HTTP: http://jonudell.net/download/dhttp.html. I still like the idea.

]]> By: Michael R. Bernstein http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-64059 Michael R. Bernstein Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:28:49 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-64059 Jon, if the lowest of the low-level APIs (storage and computation) get re-formed as a set of P2P services, 'Level 4' is the wrong name for it, since it will (optionally) underlay the other levels. I think you'd have to call it 'Level 0'. Other strands in this thread are server virtualization and 'Hardware as a Service' (HaaS). But, given the premise (which I largely agree with), I think it is safe to assume that for these ideas to succeed in the current environment, the industry as a whole cannot tolerate re-proprietization of the lowest levels of the infrastructure stack (proprietary implementations of interoperable standards are still kosher, though). Instead, we will need a P2P-service equivalent to POSIX, and I would be very surprised if it didn't turn out to be RESTful (but possibly with one or more new non-http URI schemes). Jon, if the lowest of the low-level APIs (storage and computation) get re-formed as a set of P2P services, ‘Level 4′ is the wrong name for it, since it will (optionally) underlay the other levels. I think you’d have to call it ‘Level 0′. Other strands in this thread are server virtualization and ‘Hardware as a Service’ (HaaS).

But, given the premise (which I largely agree with), I think it is safe to assume that for these ideas to succeed in the current environment, the industry as a whole cannot tolerate re-proprietization of the lowest levels of the infrastructure stack (proprietary implementations of interoperable standards are still kosher, though).

Instead, we will need a P2P-service equivalent to POSIX, and I would be very surprised if it didn’t turn out to be RESTful (but possibly with one or more new non-http URI schemes).

]]> By: Nodalities http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-64052 Nodalities Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:05:05 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/21/the-fourth-platform/#comment-64052 <strong>The fourth platform... ?</strong> Interesting. I wrote on Monday about Marc Andreessen's latest essay on Internet Platforms. Talis Platform Advisory Group member Jon Udell chips in with a brief but interesting take on this today. “There’s a level 4 platform waiting in the... The fourth platform… ?

Interesting. I wrote on Monday about Marc Andreessen’s latest essay on Internet Platforms. Talis Platform Advisory Group member Jon Udell chips in with a brief but interesting take on this today. “There’s a level 4 platform waiting in the…

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