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	<title>Comments on: Language lessons</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/</link>
	<description>Strategies for Internet citizens</description>
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		<title>By: User-Generated Content &#8211; Just more &#8216;Us vs Them&#8217;? &#124; Social Network Sites</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-206989</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[User-Generated Content &#8211; Just more &#8216;Us vs Them&#8217;? &#124; Social Network Sites]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-206989</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] link: Here&#8217;s Jon Udell on why he dislikes the term per [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] link: Here&#8217;s Jon Udell on why he dislikes the term per [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tylor Rex</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-130993</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tylor Rex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 15:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-130993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[South Park is a series that much about it because the topics are considered taboo and often turned to derision, but also why we love him so much ^ ^]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>South Park is a series that much about it because the topics are considered taboo and often turned to derision, but also why we love him so much ^ ^</p>
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		<title>By: BoghewWoorgep</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-126925</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BoghewWoorgep]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-126925</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent site blog.jonudell.net and I am really pleased to see you have this  this post. 
I am crrently working in the south of france looking at property for sale, having fun in the sun and bookmarking everything that I find interesting on the net (including blog.jonudell.net of course !) 
It has taken me literally 2 hours and 13 minutes of searching the web to find you (just kidding!) so I shall be pleased to become a regular visitor from now on :)

Thanks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent site blog.jonudell.net and I am really pleased to see you have this  this post.<br />
I am crrently working in the south of france looking at property for sale, having fun in the sun and bookmarking everything that I find interesting on the net (including blog.jonudell.net of course !)<br />
It has taken me literally 2 hours and 13 minutes of searching the web to find you (just kidding!) so I shall be pleased to become a regular visitor from now on :)</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: maninabo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-122296</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maninabo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-122296</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://freeyland.info/rolex-watches/where-to-find-value-of-vintage-rolex-watches.php]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://freeyland.info/rolex-watches/where-to-find-value-of-vintage-rolex-watches.php" rel="nofollow">http://freeyland.info/rolex-watches/where-to-find-value-of-vintage-rolex-watches.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: Better Word than User? &#171; Impressions Scholarcast</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-58595</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Better Word than User? &#171; Impressions Scholarcast]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-58595</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] 9th, 2007   One of my favourite blog authors (and podcasters), Jon Udell, raised the possibility of finding a better word than &#8216;user&#8217;, particularly in the context of &#8216;user-generated content&#8217;. Jon in turn refers to a blog [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 9th, 2007   One of my favourite blog authors (and podcasters), Jon Udell, raised the possibility of finding a better word than &#8216;user&#8217;, particularly in the context of &#8216;user-generated content&#8217;. Jon in turn refers to a blog [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anne 2.1 &#187; links for 2007-06-09</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27533</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anne 2.1 &#187; links for 2007-06-09]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Language lessons « Jon Udell &#8220;Language governs thought, and when we enrich our language we enrich our individual and shared mental lives.&#8221; (tags: writing language advice social-web) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Language lessons « Jon Udell &#8220;Language governs thought, and when we enrich our language we enrich our individual and shared mental lives.&#8221; (tags: writing language advice social-web) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael R. Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27458</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael R. Bernstein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 18:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27458</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#039;Community&#039; is becoming overloaded. It can apply to systems like wikis, where much of the interaction is between participants, but in many other cases the focus is on the person&#039;s relationship with some media object or the central system. In which case, &#039;public&#039; may be more appropriate.

In place of &#039;content&#039;, we can put &#039;media&#039; in many cases. In others, it should be data (or metadata), or perhaps something more specific, like &#039;reviews&#039;, &#039;commentary&#039;, &#039;ratings&#039;, etc.

When you think about it, the systems that facilitate &#039;community produced media&#039; don&#039;t really have that much in common with those facilitating &#039;publicly gathered reviews&#039;, and lumping them both into some relatively formless &#039;user generated content&#039; category does both a disservice, because even if *some* of the HCI is similar, the devil is always in the details.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Community&#8217; is becoming overloaded. It can apply to systems like wikis, where much of the interaction is between participants, but in many other cases the focus is on the person&#8217;s relationship with some media object or the central system. In which case, &#8216;public&#8217; may be more appropriate.</p>
<p>In place of &#8216;content&#8217;, we can put &#8216;media&#8217; in many cases. In others, it should be data (or metadata), or perhaps something more specific, like &#8216;reviews&#8217;, &#8216;commentary&#8217;, &#8216;ratings&#8217;, etc.</p>
<p>When you think about it, the systems that facilitate &#8216;community produced media&#8217; don&#8217;t really have that much in common with those facilitating &#8216;publicly gathered reviews&#8217;, and lumping them both into some relatively formless &#8216;user generated content&#8217; category does both a disservice, because even if *some* of the HCI is similar, the devil is always in the details.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathy Sierra</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27404</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kathy Sierra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think we need to reclaim the word &quot;user&quot; and give it the respect it deserves (Bob Erb makes a really good point here). I struggled with this one as well (I&#039;ve been calling my work &quot;creating passionate users&quot;), but the word &quot;user&quot; reflects two of the most *important* attributes our &quot;users&quot; want in the products and services we create--&quot;usefulness&quot; and &quot;usability&quot;

Even my local ski resort -- Copper Mountain -- has signs posted referring to users of the mountain as...&quot;users.&quot; Now that they have both skiers AND snowboarders, &quot;skiers&quot; no longer works and they didn&#039;t bother inventing a new word or making contrived signage... &quot;people on skis or snowboards who are using the facilities on the terrain park...&quot;. 

I don&#039;t think *most* users are insulted by the term. They&#039;re insulted by the way they&#039;re treated by poorly-designed products and the companies who make them. But I do agree with you that language governs thought -- and that&#039;s precisely why I LIKE the word &quot;user&quot;...  if companies/designers/developers/service providers focus on the word &quot;user&quot;, that means focusing on &quot;usefulness&quot; and &quot;usability.&quot;

But... I also agree that &quot;user&quot; is really just a variable, and that when it&#039;s possible to be more precise, companies should assign more specific words to it such as guest, member, participant, reader, learner, rider, etc.

I&#039;m not willing to relinquish a perfectly useful word just because of the cliche that &quot;drug dealers refer to their customers as users.&quot;  If some folks in IT have abused the word (&quot;lusers&quot;) --it&#039;s a symptom of a deeper problem, a problem that won&#039;t be corrected by referring to users as &quot;the people who use our product.&quot; If developers/designers/companies don&#039;t see their users as &quot;people&quot;, they need way more than a language fix. 

But again, I agree with you that the words we use do matter in how we think -- and &quot;user&quot; puts the emphasis right where it should be -- usability and usefulness.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we need to reclaim the word &#8220;user&#8221; and give it the respect it deserves (Bob Erb makes a really good point here). I struggled with this one as well (I&#8217;ve been calling my work &#8220;creating passionate users&#8221;), but the word &#8220;user&#8221; reflects two of the most *important* attributes our &#8220;users&#8221; want in the products and services we create&#8211;&#8221;usefulness&#8221; and &#8220;usability&#8221;</p>
<p>Even my local ski resort &#8212; Copper Mountain &#8212; has signs posted referring to users of the mountain as&#8230;&#8221;users.&#8221; Now that they have both skiers AND snowboarders, &#8220;skiers&#8221; no longer works and they didn&#8217;t bother inventing a new word or making contrived signage&#8230; &#8220;people on skis or snowboards who are using the facilities on the terrain park&#8230;&#8221;. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think *most* users are insulted by the term. They&#8217;re insulted by the way they&#8217;re treated by poorly-designed products and the companies who make them. But I do agree with you that language governs thought &#8212; and that&#8217;s precisely why I LIKE the word &#8220;user&#8221;&#8230;  if companies/designers/developers/service providers focus on the word &#8220;user&#8221;, that means focusing on &#8220;usefulness&#8221; and &#8220;usability.&#8221;</p>
<p>But&#8230; I also agree that &#8220;user&#8221; is really just a variable, and that when it&#8217;s possible to be more precise, companies should assign more specific words to it such as guest, member, participant, reader, learner, rider, etc.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not willing to relinquish a perfectly useful word just because of the cliche that &#8220;drug dealers refer to their customers as users.&#8221;  If some folks in IT have abused the word (&#8220;lusers&#8221;) &#8211;it&#8217;s a symptom of a deeper problem, a problem that won&#8217;t be corrected by referring to users as &#8220;the people who use our product.&#8221; If developers/designers/companies don&#8217;t see their users as &#8220;people&#8221;, they need way more than a language fix. </p>
<p>But again, I agree with you that the words we use do matter in how we think &#8212; and &#8220;user&#8221; puts the emphasis right where it should be &#8212; usability and usefulness.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven&#8217;s Notebook &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2007-06-09</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27251</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steven&#8217;s Notebook &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2007-06-09]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 05:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Language lessons « Jon Udell Language governs thought, and when we enrich our language we enrich our individual and shared mental lives (tags: TWIMideas WriteAboutThis) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Language lessons « Jon Udell Language governs thought, and when we enrich our language we enrich our individual and shared mental lives (tags: TWIMideas WriteAboutThis) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Impressions Scholarcast &#187; Better Word than User?</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27222</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Impressions Scholarcast &#187; Better Word than User?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 03:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of my favourite blog authors (and podcasters), Jon Udell, raised the possibility of finding a better word than &#8216;user&#8217;, particularly in the context of &#8216;user-generated content&#8217;. Jon in turn refers to a blog [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of my favourite blog authors (and podcasters), Jon Udell, raised the possibility of finding a better word than &#8216;user&#8217;, particularly in the context of &#8216;user-generated content&#8217;. Jon in turn refers to a blog [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Erb</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27220</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Erb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 03:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27220</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, Jon.

I used to fret about &quot;user&quot; too. Pejorative, insulting, unimaginative, with tales of &quot;lusers&quot; circulating in IT cube farms; I tried hard to avoid it.

Now, I notice the users have adopted it as their own. They don&#039;t mind being called users. They call themselves users.

Maybe it was us that projected our disdain and then felt guilty about it that caused our discomfort with the word.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Jon.</p>
<p>I used to fret about &#8220;user&#8221; too. Pejorative, insulting, unimaginative, with tales of &#8220;lusers&#8221; circulating in IT cube farms; I tried hard to avoid it.</p>
<p>Now, I notice the users have adopted it as their own. They don&#8217;t mind being called users. They call themselves users.</p>
<p>Maybe it was us that projected our disdain and then felt guilty about it that caused our discomfort with the word.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Glass</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27071</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Graham Glass]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27071</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Jon,

I prefer the phrase &quot;community contributed content&quot; as it recognizes that the community is sharing materials with other members of the community. It seems warmer than the more sterile &quot;user generated content&quot;.

Cheers,
Graham]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jon,</p>
<p>I prefer the phrase &#8220;community contributed content&#8221; as it recognizes that the community is sharing materials with other members of the community. It seems warmer than the more sterile &#8220;user generated content&#8221;.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Graham</p>
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		<title>By: Rhys</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27053</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rhys]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27053</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your blog is generally a good read, and I feel a bit bad for only leaving a comment when I don&#039;t like the post.

But I can&#039;t believe people actually give more than a moment&#039;s thought to this issue. 
a) User is not a pejorative term
b) It actually does a pretty good job of describing what people do when they visit and engage with websites in general. I actually found it very difficult to write that previous sentence without using the word &#039;use&#039;, and had to use the silly word &#039;engage&#039; instead.
c) Language is a nested and overlapping thing. If &#039;user&#039; is used it doesn&#039;t preclude other terms from being used as well in contexts that suit them (webjay being a good example).

Damn - sucked in. Here&#039;s me giving WAY more than a moment&#039;s thought to it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your blog is generally a good read, and I feel a bit bad for only leaving a comment when I don&#8217;t like the post.</p>
<p>But I can&#8217;t believe people actually give more than a moment&#8217;s thought to this issue.<br />
a) User is not a pejorative term<br />
b) It actually does a pretty good job of describing what people do when they visit and engage with websites in general. I actually found it very difficult to write that previous sentence without using the word &#8216;use&#8217;, and had to use the silly word &#8216;engage&#8217; instead.<br />
c) Language is a nested and overlapping thing. If &#8216;user&#8217; is used it doesn&#8217;t preclude other terms from being used as well in contexts that suit them (webjay being a good example).</p>
<p>Damn &#8211; sucked in. Here&#8217;s me giving WAY more than a moment&#8217;s thought to it.</p>
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		<title>By: rexblog.com: Rex Hammock&#8217;s weblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A term worse than user-generated-content</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27039</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rexblog.com: Rex Hammock&#8217;s weblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A term worse than user-generated-content]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/06/08/language-lessons/#comment-27039</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] helping to kill the phrase &#8220;user-generated content.&#8221; In the mean time, I noticed that Jon Udell and Jimmy Gutterman are discussing their dislike of the word &#8220;user&#8221; and [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] helping to kill the phrase &#8220;user-generated content.&#8221; In the mean time, I noticed that Jon Udell and Jimmy Gutterman are discussing their dislike of the word &#8220;user&#8221; and [...]</p>
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