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	<title>Comments on: Primary sources? You don&#8217;t need &#8216;em. Trust us.</title>
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	<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/</link>
	<description>Strategies for Internet citizens</description>
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		<title>By: imprezy lublin</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-144081</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[imprezy lublin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-144081</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I haven&#039;t a bad word to say about it I can only learn from this great article. It’s very crucial!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t a bad word to say about it I can only learn from this great article. It’s very crucial!</p>
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		<title>By: I am (not) Spock &#171; Jon Udell</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-108034</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I am (not) Spock &#171; Jon Udell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-108034</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Spock thinks that Jon Udell is the inspector general at the Department of Justice, based on these two blog postings of mine. In fact, that person (whom I will not name here in order to avert yet more [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Spock thinks that Jon Udell is the inspector general at the Department of Justice, based on these two blog postings of mine. In fact, that person (whom I will not name here in order to avert yet more [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1659</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1659</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I very much agree with the value of original data and proper citation. Had you only reported a count of the two classes of sites, I would not have noticed that: there are only 41 sites listed in the &quot;not linking&quot; column (not 42), three sites are on both lists (www.guardian.co.uk, www.helenair.com, www.kansascity.com), and there is a duplicate in the &quot;not linking&quot; column (abcnews.go.com, www.abcnews.go.com). These observations don&#039;t change the substance of the story, but in another context they might.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I very much agree with the value of original data and proper citation. Had you only reported a count of the two classes of sites, I would not have noticed that: there are only 41 sites listed in the &#8220;not linking&#8221; column (not 42), three sites are on both lists (www.guardian.co.uk, <a href="http://www.helenair.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.helenair.com</a>, <a href="http://www.kansascity.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.kansascity.com</a>), and there is a duplicate in the &#8220;not linking&#8221; column (abcnews.go.com, <a href="http://www.abcnews.go.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.abcnews.go.com</a>). These observations don&#8217;t change the substance of the story, but in another context they might.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Caulfield</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1595</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Caulfield]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1595</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I thought it was funny when a particular event involving my blog broke, it was mentioned in something like 176 newspapers via an AP feed that mentioned the name of my blog, but not the address. 

People were saying -- the thing you posted has been covered in the Washington Post! In USA Today! In the Seattle PI! You must be swamped!

Nope. Barely got 500 hits out of the whole thing, and most of those coming from Google, with, you guessed it, people searching on the name of the blog.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought it was funny when a particular event involving my blog broke, it was mentioned in something like 176 newspapers via an AP feed that mentioned the name of my blog, but not the address. </p>
<p>People were saying &#8212; the thing you posted has been covered in the Washington Post! In USA Today! In the Seattle PI! You must be swamped!</p>
<p>Nope. Barely got 500 hits out of the whole thing, and most of those coming from Google, with, you guessed it, people searching on the name of the blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Notes from a Teacher: Mark on Media &#187; Sunday squibs (updated)</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1584</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Notes from a Teacher: Mark on Media &#187; Sunday squibs (updated)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 04:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1584</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Primary sources? You don’t need ‘em. Trust us. Jon Udell looks at how last week&#8217;s American Department of Justice report on the FBI was covered and finds, after plumbing some Google search results, only 12 news sources that linked to the full report and 42 that didn&#8217;t. Among the &#8220;didn&#8217;ts&#8221; are some big names, including ABC, the Guardian and the Washington Post.com. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Primary sources? You don’t need ‘em. Trust us. Jon Udell looks at how last week&#8217;s American Department of Justice report on the FBI was covered and finds, after plumbing some Google search results, only 12 news sources that linked to the full report and 42 that didn&#8217;t. Among the &#8220;didn&#8217;ts&#8221; are some big names, including ABC, the Guardian and the Washington Post.com. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2007-03-11 &#171; cygweb</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1578</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[links for 2007-03-11 &#171; cygweb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Primary sources? You don’t need ‘em. Trust us. « Jon Udell (tags: blogging media) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Primary sources? You don’t need ‘em. Trust us. « Jon Udell (tags: blogging media) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1570</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1570</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So, should industry analysts also follow this same advice. You may notice that firms such as The 451 Group, Elemental Links, The Burton Group and Redmonk link while Gartner and the larger guys don&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, should industry analysts also follow this same advice. You may notice that firms such as The 451 Group, Elemental Links, The Burton Group and Redmonk link while Gartner and the larger guys don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: tecosystems &#187; links for 2007-03-11</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1568</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tecosystems &#187; links for 2007-03-11]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 05:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Primary sources? You don’t need ‘em. Trust us. « Jon Udell &#8220;In the blogosophere, you could scarely imagine mentioning a publicly-available report without also linking to it (e.g., Technorati, Bloglines). But in the mainstream media, it’s still the exception rather than rule.&#8221; - never understood this (tags: linking blogging internet JonUdell media) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Primary sources? You don’t need ‘em. Trust us. « Jon Udell &#8220;In the blogosophere, you could scarely imagine mentioning a publicly-available report without also linking to it (e.g., Technorati, Bloglines). But in the mainstream media, it’s still the exception rather than rule.&#8221; &#8211; never understood this (tags: linking blogging internet JonUdell media) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Tremblay</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1567</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben Tremblay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 03:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1567</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The idea behind my &quot;Participatory Deliberation&quot; project is that &quot;primary documents&quot; can be *cough* de-constructed to provide the raw material for something like the &quot;glass beads&quot; in Hesse&#039;s &quot;Magister Ludi&quot;.

Arguments from authority (aka &quot;arguments from the book&quot;) are, I think, anethema to public discourse. And yet, and yet ...

What concerns me about the blogosphere is that despite the dynamical stability provided by it&#039;s &quot;feed-back / feed-forward&quot; nature it will go into a self-verifying stasis. Without credible (authoritative?) input it gets stale and becomes an elaborate mutual admiration society.

FWIW I think the survival of print journals is prime. With the possible exception of occasional government docs (which aren&#039;t always discoverable; semantic web anybody? (grin*) and publically funded research papers (which aren&#039;t always accessible; see SW above) they are the raw grist for the mill. (I&#039;m seeing more transcripts from TV shows ... that&#039;s all very very good.)

Pre-digested is not good for us ... over-processed is not good for us ... we need ruffage daily. And primary documents provide that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea behind my &#8220;Participatory Deliberation&#8221; project is that &#8220;primary documents&#8221; can be *cough* de-constructed to provide the raw material for something like the &#8220;glass beads&#8221; in Hesse&#8217;s &#8220;Magister Ludi&#8221;.</p>
<p>Arguments from authority (aka &#8220;arguments from the book&#8221;) are, I think, anethema to public discourse. And yet, and yet &#8230;</p>
<p>What concerns me about the blogosphere is that despite the dynamical stability provided by it&#8217;s &#8220;feed-back / feed-forward&#8221; nature it will go into a self-verifying stasis. Without credible (authoritative?) input it gets stale and becomes an elaborate mutual admiration society.</p>
<p>FWIW I think the survival of print journals is prime. With the possible exception of occasional government docs (which aren&#8217;t always discoverable; semantic web anybody? (grin*) and publically funded research papers (which aren&#8217;t always accessible; see SW above) they are the raw grist for the mill. (I&#8217;m seeing more transcripts from TV shows &#8230; that&#8217;s all very very good.)</p>
<p>Pre-digested is not good for us &#8230; over-processed is not good for us &#8230; we need ruffage daily. And primary documents provide that.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Udell</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1564</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jon Udell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 01:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Would deep linking to a specific document that relates to “matters of national security” be considered risky?&quot;

Not when the document is published, however ineptly, on the DOJ&#039;s website, as required (I presume) by law.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Would deep linking to a specific document that relates to “matters of national security” be considered risky?&#8221;</p>
<p>Not when the document is published, however ineptly, on the DOJ&#8217;s website, as required (I presume) by law.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Udell</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jon Udell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 01:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Some in your articles cited in your list (such as businessweek.com) link to the DOJ home page–from which it’s nearly impossible to find the report.&quot;

Absolutely right. I scanned only for www.usdoj.gov and www.justice.gov, rather than for the specific URL, in order to give the benefit of doubt. A stricter scan would have yielded a worse outcome.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Some in your articles cited in your list (such as businessweek.com) link to the DOJ home page–from which it’s nearly impossible to find the report.&#8221;</p>
<p>Absolutely right. I scanned only for <a href="http://www.usdoj.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.usdoj.gov</a> and <a href="http://www.justice.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.justice.gov</a>, rather than for the specific URL, in order to give the benefit of doubt. A stricter scan would have yielded a worse outcome.</p>
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		<title>By: tecosystems &#187; Blogging Conquered Politics: Looks Like Sports is Next</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1562</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tecosystems &#187; Blogging Conquered Politics: Looks Like Sports is Next]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 00:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1562</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Jon observes, there is essentially zero linking in the mainstream Boston sports press. Even the credits to blog [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jon observes, there is essentially zero linking in the mainstream Boston sports press. Even the credits to blog [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1560</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It would be interesting to see if there are listed conventions for writers regarding external linking to content -- especially for deep linking such as PDF, DOC, or other content.  Perhaps an editor ultimately control this and get to nix a desire to link.

I wonder if there is a legal risk to linking if it leads someone to the wrong place?  

Is there a concern that &quot;deep linking&quot; is still some kind of publishing bogeyman?

Would deep linking to a specific document that relates to &quot;matters of national security&quot; be considered risky? (assuming talking heads would gloss past such content being available on an unsecured or obfuscated website location)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be interesting to see if there are listed conventions for writers regarding external linking to content &#8212; especially for deep linking such as PDF, DOC, or other content.  Perhaps an editor ultimately control this and get to nix a desire to link.</p>
<p>I wonder if there is a legal risk to linking if it leads someone to the wrong place?  </p>
<p>Is there a concern that &#8220;deep linking&#8221; is still some kind of publishing bogeyman?</p>
<p>Would deep linking to a specific document that relates to &#8220;matters of national security&#8221; be considered risky? (assuming talking heads would gloss past such content being available on an unsecured or obfuscated website location)</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Binstock</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1559</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Binstock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1559</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not enough to count articles that have links, and assume they point to primary sources. They don&#039;t in many cases. Some in your articles cited in your list (such as businessweek.com) link to the DOJ home page--from which it&#039;s nearly impossible to find the report--others have broken links. I found the report at http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/FBI/index.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not enough to count articles that have links, and assume they point to primary sources. They don&#8217;t in many cases. Some in your articles cited in your list (such as businessweek.com) link to the DOJ home page&#8211;from which it&#8217;s nearly impossible to find the report&#8211;others have broken links. I found the report at <a href="http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/FBI/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/FBI/index.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Montgomery</title>
		<link>http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1557</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Montgomery]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 19:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/03/10/primary-sources-you-dont-need-em-trust-us/#comment-1557</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In conversations with various editors over the years I&#039;ve found a couple of disturbing attitudes and patterns about things like exposing the primary source to readers. 

The first attitude I&#039;d characterize as &quot;We Know Best.&quot; This attitude is epitomized by the writer who has done all the thinking. In it, reading a newspaper is fundamentally a passive activity where the reader is exposed to whatever implicit or explicit bias the writers and editors have, and exposure to contrary bias/opinion should be limited to the throw-away quote. Exposure to primary material changes the passive activity to an activity, which is a Bad Thing.

A second attitude (which for me is scarier) is &quot;We Didn&#039;t Know You Could Do That.&quot; Link to an original source? Really?? We can do that? And people will actually read the source material?? Wow. A note to this class of writer and editors: spend sixty seconds and use your favorite search engine to find some original materials and link to them.

A third attitude is, &quot;Readers Will Figure Out How to Find The Source Material.&quot; Yes, they will. Make it easier, please: link.

The fourth attitude I&#039;ve heard is &quot;Once You&#039;ve Got &#039;Em, Never Let &#039;Em Go.&quot; In this one, the idea is that people will go to a particular newspaper&#039;s site and just stay there, clicking around the links on that site to other links on that site.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In conversations with various editors over the years I&#8217;ve found a couple of disturbing attitudes and patterns about things like exposing the primary source to readers. </p>
<p>The first attitude I&#8217;d characterize as &#8220;We Know Best.&#8221; This attitude is epitomized by the writer who has done all the thinking. In it, reading a newspaper is fundamentally a passive activity where the reader is exposed to whatever implicit or explicit bias the writers and editors have, and exposure to contrary bias/opinion should be limited to the throw-away quote. Exposure to primary material changes the passive activity to an activity, which is a Bad Thing.</p>
<p>A second attitude (which for me is scarier) is &#8220;We Didn&#8217;t Know You Could Do That.&#8221; Link to an original source? Really?? We can do that? And people will actually read the source material?? Wow. A note to this class of writer and editors: spend sixty seconds and use your favorite search engine to find some original materials and link to them.</p>
<p>A third attitude is, &#8220;Readers Will Figure Out How to Find The Source Material.&#8221; Yes, they will. Make it easier, please: link.</p>
<p>The fourth attitude I&#8217;ve heard is &#8220;Once You&#8217;ve Got &#8216;Em, Never Let &#8216;Em Go.&#8221; In this one, the idea is that people will go to a particular newspaper&#8217;s site and just stay there, clicking around the links on that site to other links on that site.</p>
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