Comments on: A case of suspected fraud http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/ Strategies for Internet citizens Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:06:41 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: James Governor http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-219 James Governor Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:21:37 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-219 check out picalo - open source fraud detection - community created fraud spotting rules check out picalo – open source fraud detection – community created fraud spotting rules

]]> By: Jon Udell http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-192 Jon Udell Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:37:01 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-192 "http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0691029083" Nice. I keep forgetting that with Amazon, more precise queries can be worse. So this, even unquoted, fails: Trust in Numbers: The Pursuit of Objectivity in Science and Public Life “http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0691029083″

Nice. I keep forgetting that with Amazon, more precise queries can be worse. So this, even unquoted, fails:

Trust in Numbers: The Pursuit of Objectivity in Science and Public Life

]]> By: Jim Russell http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-185 Jim Russell Fri, 12 Jan 2007 03:25:32 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-185 Looks as if you can read the entire book online: http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0691029083 Looks as if you can read the entire book online:

http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0691029083

]]> By: Jon Udell http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-182 Jon Udell Fri, 12 Jan 2007 01:15:52 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-182 "Trust in Numbers: The Pursuit of Objectivity in Science and Public Life” by Theodore M. Porter" Wow. That's obscure enough to have evaded even Amazon's wide net. - Jon “Trust in Numbers: The Pursuit of Objectivity in Science and Public Life” by Theodore M. Porter”

Wow. That’s obscure enough to have evaded even Amazon’s wide net.

- Jon

]]> By: Andrew http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-181 Andrew Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:13:23 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-181 Your description of your behavior is actually much closer to Cialdini's description of the 'liking' principle than I first thought. If you had no personal connection whatsoever I suspect one of the other principles would have come into play a little more. Maybe you would have looked to 'authority' by calling the chair of the advisory board, or maybe you would have gone down the 'social proof' route and called up a bunch of the board members and/or some of the other presenters. Or maybe you would found some other personal connection, however tenuous, to one of the board members (the car salesman doesn't need to say he comes from the same state as you he just has to claim some sort of connection even if that is via relatives). I obviously can't predict what you would have done and I do know that Cialdini's persuasion principles are not hard and fast rules but it is amazing how often they seem to pop up in every day life. Andrew. Your description of your behavior is actually much closer to Cialdini’s description of the ‘liking’ principle than I first thought. If you had no personal connection whatsoever I suspect one of the other principles would have come into play a little more. Maybe you would have looked to ‘authority’ by calling the chair of the advisory board, or maybe you would have gone down the ’social proof’ route and called up a bunch of the board members and/or some of the other presenters. Or maybe you would found some other personal connection, however tenuous, to one of the board members (the car salesman doesn’t need to say he comes from the same state as you he just has to claim some sort of connection even if that is via relatives).

I obviously can’t predict what you would have done and I do know that Cialdini’s persuasion principles are not hard and fast rules but it is amazing how often they seem to pop up in every day life.

Andrew.

]]> By: Jim Russell http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-180 Jim Russell Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:01:43 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-180 Concerning trust, I recommend "Trust in Numbers: The Pursuit of Objectivity in Science and Public Life" by Theodore M. Porter. For example, we could understand the standardization of measures and currency as "technologies of trust" that help states overcome the subjectivities of family and locality. I'm looking for an economist who might understand how one could build a trust market in an online community. It could be a futures market or there could be a form of trust currency used to buy information. Any suggestions? Concerning trust, I recommend “Trust in Numbers: The Pursuit of Objectivity in Science and Public Life” by Theodore M. Porter. For example, we could understand the standardization of measures and currency as “technologies of trust” that help states overcome the subjectivities of family and locality.

I’m looking for an economist who might understand how one could build a trust market in an online community. It could be a futures market or there could be a form of trust currency used to buy information. Any suggestions?

]]> By: Jon Udell http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-178 Jon Udell Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:21:49 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-178 {{Robert Cialdini’s book “Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion”}} On my wishlist, thanks. "In this case you needed to trust somebody from a list of otherwise unknown people so you picked the closest one." In this case, actually, it isn't strictly distance-related. Yes, New Jersey is closer to me in terms of distance than California, but it's also closer in terms of family. I grew up in Philadephia and have family in PA and NJ. Had I grown up in California I'd likely have reached out to someone there first. But suppose I had no personal connection to either of the options. Would distance alone govern the choice? {{Robert Cialdini’s book “Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion”}}

On my wishlist, thanks.

“In this case you needed to trust somebody from a list of otherwise unknown people so you picked the closest one.”

In this case, actually, it isn’t strictly distance-related. Yes, New Jersey is closer to me in terms of distance than California, but it’s also closer in terms of family. I grew up in Philadephia and have family in PA and NJ.

Had I grown up in California I’d likely have reached out to someone there first.

But suppose I had no personal connection to either of the options. Would distance alone govern the choice?

]]> By: Andrew http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-176 Andrew Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:56:53 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-176 > But there were various folks in the U.S. I could have called, yet > I picked the person who lives in New Jersey. Why? I would suggest you read Robert Cialdini's book "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" and then answer this question for yourself. Everything else being equal, we humans instinctively tend to trust people that are more 'like' us than people who are less 'like' us. For instance car salespeople will often play on this by asking where you are from and, if it's out of state, claim to have relatives from that part of the country. In this case you needed to trust somebody from a list of otherwise unknown people so you picked the closest one. I highly recommend reading Cialdini's book and learning about the other 5 principles that can be used to persuade you into doing something (reciprocity, consistency/commitment, social proof, scarcity, authority). Andrew. > But there were various folks in the U.S. I could have called, yet
> I picked the person who lives in New Jersey. Why?

I would suggest you read Robert Cialdini’s book “Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion” and then answer this question for yourself. Everything else being equal, we humans instinctively tend to trust people that are more ‘like’ us than people who are less ‘like’ us. For instance car salespeople will often play on this by asking where you are from and, if it’s out of state, claim to have relatives from that part of the country. In this case you needed to trust somebody from a list of otherwise unknown people so you picked the closest one.

I highly recommend reading Cialdini’s book and learning about the other 5 principles that can be used to persuade you into doing something (reciprocity, consistency/commitment, social proof, scarcity, authority).

Andrew.

]]> By: Gardner http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-175 Gardner Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:47:20 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-175 I love Cambridge. Milton's college town! Glad to hear everything worked out. Will the conference proceedings be online? Podcasts of talks? The topic seems ripe for online presence. I love Cambridge. Milton’s college town! Glad to hear everything worked out. Will the conference proceedings be online? Podcasts of talks? The topic seems ripe for online presence.

]]> By: BillyG http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-172 BillyG Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:26:15 +0000 http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/11/a-case-of-suspected-fraud/#comment-172 I guess you were feeling virtual for a second there. I've had similar experiences with webpage development: not knowing if a particular problem was my cache, ISP, or just the Google borg messing with my tired head when I keep tweaking something and it doesn't go my way! Pretty wild stuff lol. btw: I'm in Greenville, just a hop away from Charlotte; chalk one up for eagle-eyed Southerners! I guess you were feeling virtual for a second there.

I’ve had similar experiences with webpage development: not knowing if a particular problem was my cache, ISP, or just the Google borg messing with my tired head when I keep tweaking something and it doesn’t go my way!

Pretty wild stuff lol.

btw: I’m in Greenville, just a hop away from Charlotte; chalk one up for eagle-eyed Southerners!

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